Hello everyone, Sorry but this complete writeup has been moved to my.prostreetonline.com.
Click here for the complete writeup and additional chapters that have been added, from closed loop control to wot tuning.
Where nobody's listening… but I'm still talking
Piggyback Heaven – How to tune your Super AFC Neo
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Quick question-is this the extent of the writeup? I don’t see a link to ‘next’ to. Sorry if I missed it.
Hey sorry but part II hasn’t been finished yet.. have any particular questions I can help you out with?
Eagerly anticipating your followup to this section about the AFC. It looks like you stay busy with car stuff and sports. I’m really just looking to get what looks like a very educated install and tuning class before doing this on my D/D. Thanks so much! -Kurt
I do have one question for you in the meantime while you get the rest of the writeup completed…
I have severe rich conditions at startup until the engine goes into closed loop. My wideband says 10.00 to ‘rch’. After it hits closed loop (~172 degrees coolant temp), with lights, defroster and fan blower on high for the amp drawdown to the pump, I’ll eventually get to and hover between 14.3–15.3, and oscillate.
I’ve went as low as I can go on the injectors (24lb) and still have enough coverage for w.o.t., 10psi, max-rpm hits. At those times, I’ll get to around 10.5 and sometimes get into ‘rch’ again.
The NEO is meant to help with that I know, but can it be used to ONLY tune fuel at idle/startup, then not have any input in cruise and off boost conditions, and then kick back in at max-rpm, max boost to help with the richness there?
Thanks. And please, continue the good work and finish out this tuning writeup! lol
Kurt
Kurt, sounds like you are in cold warmup mode the way you are describing the issue.
The SAFC has a low throttle setting and a hi throttle setting, what do you have these values for under the ‘etc’ menu?
Have you changed the rpm resolution to give you more idle and offspeed adjustibility? If no, I would start there to gain more granularity in rpm adjustment.
Not yet. I bought the NEO sometime back. Just haven’t felt like thrashing my PCM’s harness yet. I’ve been pretty much satisfied without it. I hit ‘RCH’ on the Wideband gauge (below 10 afr) at around 5500rpms (redline is 6800). I know I’m leaving some power on the table, but without timing control (Saturn’s pcm is a red-headed step child of sport compact), I’ve been happy to be a little rich on the top end for safety. If and when I put it on, I’ll only use it for tuning startup/idle (yes, I have the rich code) and for top end re: the ‘RCH’ issue. I’m going to keep looking back here for guidance. I have to say, your site and the writeups (I come for the auto stuff, but stay for the NFL talk) are awesome. Keep up the great work!
Hey Kurt
When you are installing the NEO, I would look into Boomslang harness as they make several extension harnesses for many different cars,
by “under 10 afr” I am assuming it’s richer than a 10:1 mixture? wow.. that is awful rich. I would try slapping that NEO in and seeing what you can do with it!
Thanks for the kind words, I’ve moved a lot of my football talk to another blog, but I am just too swamped with projects to update with any frequency.
Thanks for tuning in!
You’re welcome on the comments. Keep up the great work. Its tough to find someone that gives out good, correct, viable information without being a complete arse about it.
Yes, the under 10 afr comment means rich. I’ll look for a harness for my car but I won’t hold my breath-the sport compact aftermarket hasn’t been very welcoming for the Saturn vehicles, and now that they’re officially dead, I’m pretty sure they’ve been hurredly clearing their shelves of all the parts they’d yet to sell let alone take on new product. hahaha. But, its the bed I chose.
One question for you re: the NEO. Right now I have SES light on for too rich at idle (and I know why) and some trans codes (I’m using an auto pcm in my manual because by doing so, although you get the light, you don’t have to worry about speed limiters and rev limiters cutting fuel at the injectgors while under boost). If I get the NEO installed, and am able to not only tune the rich, WOT numbers down some, I’d be able to help myself with startup AFR’s too, correct?
Also, after I wire that thing in and put in a correct PCM, will the NEO installed as the piggyback cause any check engine lights to your knowledge? This is holding me back from ‘legally’ being inspected in my great state of Texas. 🙂 I’m getting tired of finding an inspector that will do it and then paying out the nose for an under the table sticker.
Any guidance is appreciated.
Kurt, so sorry man I forgot your unique application ( Saturn ) lol
Yes, using the manual PCM in your auto will get rid of the annoying autotragic limits as far as speed and rev are concerned. Looping your AOD and also your shift control solenoid should shut up those annoying lights. Much like many of the automatic – manual conversions I’ve done, this is a fairly easy step.
When you wire the NEO in, you will be able to adjust the lo throttle position to fool your PCM into thinking that the MAF is reading less air, which in turn will lean your car out. A proper datalogger and looking at STFT will help here.
Hope that helps! sorry but not sure why it wont let me reply to your last comment.
Happy tuning Kurt.
Hey there
does the afc neo use the same software that tuning shops use to tune the power fc ?
Hey Joshua, the Power FC uses FC EDIT if you are tuning on a laptop, or conversely a Power Commander if you are comfortable using a handheld and viewing cells through a 6 x 6 graph.
The NEO does not interact with the Power FC.
Hey Victor.
The SAFC NEO is perfect for your 4G63. do you have it installed yet? what mods do you have on the car now?
Let me know and I can help you out! thanks
I just got a neo for my 1987 Aw11 mr2 with a 4age.
So doing some more research the jdm mr2 ran a map sensor and the USDm ran an air flow meter (afm).
Now the jdm 4agze ran an afm. So in the neo install booklet, I mix and matched between the two and made sure in my wiring diagrams in my repair book.
So here’s my problem. I have it all wired in and I did the initial start up on the neo. I can not get it to rev. If I toggle the throttle, I can get it to read up to 2500rpm then wants to die once you let go. If you try and hold the throttle, it wants to die.
Any ideas on what my problem may be??
Hey Dillon, couple of quick questions for you.
1. Do you see a input range consistent with you revving the motor under monitor? select the air flow value and see if you have the MAF wired right.
2. Do you have a a/f gauge? narrowband is okay. if so what is your a/f at roughly when the car wants to die?
3. are you building boost when the car wants to die? are you venting to atmosphere?
4. what ecu are you using? The car runs normally without the AFC right?
5. Does the monitor setting give you the right rpm? ( your rpm isnt halved or anything right? )
I don’t see an input range. I have gone through multiple times on my wiring diagrams. I have tried other wires and get no response from any corrections I try to make.
I’m using a wide band. And so when it goes to die it spikes on the lean side. Almost as if fuel is being cut completely.
No boost, running an n/a motor.
I am using the factory/original ecu that came with the aw11 4age. Which I know is setup with 175cc or 185 cc injectors. Around there somewhere.
And I currently have 235cc injectors in.
It is a big port 4age ecu running a small port 4age motor.
Car runs fine without AFC yes.
The rpm setting is 100 rpm off what my gauge cluster says.
But right on with a timing light.
okay, what adjustments are put into the SAFC right now? Does the car run okay with all adjustments zeroed? what are you using for MAF / MAP setup? What settings is your AFC running?